New Ward, Cathedral, Grandchildren

Last post shows as Aug 2012.  Now it is July 2013, with almost a year passing in which I have not posted to this blog. Which does not mean that my mind has been quiet over this past year.  Quick catch up;  continuing to attend LDS church, study of the Book of Mormon in the Sunday School class, appreciating the sense of community via Relief Society, and one on one participation with the members in various forms and callings.  Continuing as 3rd Sunday R.S. teacher which is intriguing challenge to me in teaching via the narrative while holding as true as I can to my own sense of the narrative.  Continuing R.S. visiting teaching, and sometimes finding the visits admirable, other times not so much.  Continuing preparing meals for the missionaries, visiting at homes of members in difficult circumstances, and enjoying the participation in the social activities as put on by the Ward.

In December 2012 my daughter asked for our help in watching her two little ones as she took on a promotion that would scramble her hours in a non-consistent work schedule manner.  The continued emphasis in R.S. on the grandparenting element of families gets to me in that I miss my own grandchildren who are scattered about living in different geographical locations.  It seems I have three sets of two; 2 granddaughters in colleges in different locations, 2 grandchildren who are now into their teens and tweens having grown up as children of military parent with father deployed three different times (Iraq twice, Afghanistan once) over the children's growing up years and they have lived in multiple military bases over the years, and lastly these 2 grandchildren who are young enough at 7 and 8 years for us to still have an investment in their growing up years.   My husband, supporting my wish to have more immediate connection and contact with grandchildren agreed to the arrangement to provide after school care for them.  It meant living across the state from our home and living for a time in my daughter's home.

Skipping the challenges that all of us had over the period of time we did live in my daughter's home, we found it more comfortable to take on temporary situation of finding our own apartment, while keeping our home on the other side of the state.  We found relief in some of the challenges, the grandchildren more receptive to our focused attention on them specifically, the parents more relieved to focus on their own employment and parenting challenges.  This is their second go around in parenting as they have a daughter they already raised attending college.  I detect some degree of exhaustion in both parents, yet they persevere and that speaks well of them, imo.  These are energetic youngsters that keep us on our toes all the time!

In the interim, we felt blessed to take the grandchildren with us to our new Ward, and they seemed to take well to the 3 hour block.  A dramatic shift for them in very irregular church attendance to three hours all at once.  They seemed to adapt well.   I found the urban Ward setting considerably different from the rural Ward we attended in our small town on the other side of the state.  Younger people, younger families, energy abounding and I could be telling of my own insecurities yet it felt like these young people weren't sure what to do with us 'older people'.   I immediately missed my former Ward, the R.S. women I knew and loved and the people of the Ward whom I'd come to have great affection.

It occurs to me that the older people in my former Ward give us immediately something in common - our age, many of us retired, many of grandparents.  While there were some young families with children and they were respectful to those of us who had a longer lifeline, I realized that I had cut my teeth in a Ward with people who already had commonalities with me in living rural, retired, and reaching that period of life that is less busy with tending to children and growing family.  Now I found myself in a Ward that was abuzz with activities related to a younger mindset, growing their families, growing their careers and economic status.  I found myself feeling like I didn't really fit well here whereas the Ward I came from it was easy to become part of their community.

In short time we learned of a disturbing situation that had emerged in the new Ward.  There was a newly called Bishop, young man with family, capable and able. He was called because the Bishop called before him had resigned within a week of being called.  He and his wife were still members of the Ward. In fact, his wife is one of the Primary Teachers and was very warm, responsive in taking the initiative to get our grandchildren into their classes. However, the reason he had resigned was what was disturbing for me.  He held the position in former President Bush administration as the psychologist who developed interrogation techniques that amounted to torture, ie, waterboarding of detainees post 9/11.   (link to newpaper article reporting on the incident)

Given my years of advocacy against U.S. invasion of Iraq, therefore the abhorrent behaviors that followed the invasion, it was difficult to reconcile my own political, personal beliefs against what I learned about the calling of this Bishop in this Ward.  The Ward was new to me, yet my activities in the decade following 9/11 were not new to me.  I had much difficulty reconciling within myself, recognizing that my maturity would be invaluable aid to me, I couldn't reconcile having my young grandchildren in an exposed and vulnerable position, given that they were not familiar with the LDS church belief set.  It was an uncomfortable development.

 I had initially been pleased to introduce the youngsters to the LDS church setting, even having awareness that both my husband and I would take exception to some of the Church teachings.  We believed we could work with the children and their parents in finding a balance in how the children would assimilate the teachings.  However, we were less confident we could find a way to explain to the children the vast discrepancy between what we stood for over the past decade and therefore against, and a church calling that embraced what we had stood against in their calling of the man whose profession was an affront and insulting to our own values.  Appreciating that this is God's judgment to make, not mine, does not negate the reality of the very real human dilemma for us in dealing appropriately with the particular circumstance in which we found ourselves with regard to the grandchildren.

As we explored our new surroundings in the city to which we were living, we had occasion and frankly reason to visit what was a well known tourist visitation site, in St John Episcopal Cathedral situated on a well known hill location causing the Cathedral to overlook the city.   Built in gothic architectural tradition, we were fortunate on the day of our visit that there was to be a tour of the Cathedral, and we were the only two this particular day to be taking the tour, meaning we were given very much one on one attention to the details of the Cathedral building.

We were in awe of the sacred beauty of the Cathedral, in search of a safe, temporary spiritual home in the plight of our experience with our new Ward.  It made sense to us to attend a familiar worship service, given that we had spent several years in an Episcopal chapel environment in our home town before our time with the LDS Ward in the same town.   The Episcopal congregation was comprised of older people who had long history with their Parish, going back to the days before it was built, raising money to build it, and a lifetime of attendance and service from their congregational positions in their Episcopal Parish church.

We were among the youngest in attendance and we were already approaching our senior years.  We were 'hands-on' in many capacities within the church given that it was a small, rural church.  At the time, we sometimes felt we could not keep up of all that was asked of us, in addition to the timing of our own activism roles as military family in the protestation of the Iraq war.  We eventually devoted our time to the activism in hopes of contributing to being a part of bringing the Iraq war to a quick close before more lives, those of our own military men and women and those of Iraqi civilian men, women and children were lost in war.  

We saw this, felt this as a ministry we were called to at that time and place in history, more so than the hands on assistance in the liturgy services within the chapel that commanded our time on Sundays at the expense of sharing the news of a different kind of ministry given our role as military family opposed to the war in Iraq.  We were often invited to speak at large conventions and this often time meant weekend travel, precluding our presence at the Chapel on Sundays, also preparations that demanded a good deal of our time impeding the time we were able to give to the liturgy with the Parish congregation.

Providing this background material to show some of the reasoning as to our decision to attend services at St John's Episcopal Cathedral, giving us a bit of spiritual rest we badly needed at that time.  We took both grandchildren, and granddaughter immediately wanted to participate as an Acolyte, and she was quickly accommodated, thus began her walk as an Acolyte in the Liturgical procession and service within the realm of the Cathedral, itself a testimony to a long and cherished Christian tradition.  

We invited our daughter and son-in-law to visit a service, they did and my daughter had no difficulty in announcing to me she found the liturgy boring, that there wasn't much about it that resonated with her.  We attended the church service of an Evangelical Community Church they attend, complete coffee, comfortable chairs, a band and concert, a big screen projecting the talks/sermons, huge collection buckets, different buildings where the children attended children services, age-related.  I could definitely see the attraction for my daughter, given that the services seem completely arranged to be attractive to a younger set - a younger set that is abuzz with energy and it is indeed a lively service.   Perhaps more lively than my many years are accustomed in what has become my perspective of a 'sacred' worship service.

After the initial exchanges of visiting my church and I'll visit yours, I was pleased the parents permitted us to continue to take the children to worship services, first at the Ward, then to the Episcopal Cathedral, although grandson discontinued attending very shortly after those first visits.  Granddaughter continues with her Acolyte duties, be it carrying the cross, or the book from which the gospel is read, holding the thanksgiving plate, or helping lead the younger children into the Cathedral to be welcomed into the Communion.

Since we have moved into our apartment, and the situation has settled down some with continuing to watch our grandchildren, only in our own setting, not in their home, giving us some license to interact with them on our terms, respectful of their parents' wishes.  It is a reciprocal relationship in that their parents trust their children in our care and find it desirous even that we can offer them different forms of exposure and stimulation, reinforce values and standards as contributed by their parents, adding a few 'old fashioned' type values and standards of our own and we trust the parents in their care of their children, even as some of their values and standards differ from ours.

We are blessed in the Episcopal setting to have a Dean so willing to share abundantly not only his seminary training with us in his teachings, sermons, but as well giving a strong sense of the directions the Church is taking in shaking loose some of it's older, traditional viewpoints to embrace this time in history as many churches of many denominations, including LDS, struggle in attempt to read the barometers of what it means to be Christian in these times.  Of recent climatic change for the LDS Church to take on is the ruling of the Supreme Court on the issue of gay marriage and their new rights to federal level benefits just those of heterosexual marriages.

We are also blessed in the Episcopal setting to attend services within the Cathedral which is not typical of the Episcopal arrangement.  Typically congregational parish activities take place in a Parish chapel, not the Diocesan Cathedral.  This Cathedral is different in that regard in that it absorbed 3 of the city parishes when it was being built and continues to offer the building for services that would otherwise be performed in a chapel setting, as well as the multitude of services, performances, concerts that happen in Cathedral setting.  We are privileged to be able to take advantage of attendance to any and all activities held at the Cathedral, as is the public at large welcomed.  There is not a requirement that one be an Episcopal or baptized Episcopal.  All baptisms are honored as legitimate.  One can be confirmed to the Episcopal Church by their baptism be that baptism be within the Episcopal belief set or another belief set.

In my own story, I have felt the spirit in different denominations that I attended as a young child, a teen, and young adult and walked down the aisle to affirm my belief in the Saviour, agreeing to be baptized and I have been several times in different denominations that insist that only their belief set is the correct authority, therefore rendering my previous baptisms void....and it was so for my baptism in the LDS Church, even though my explanation that I had been baptized in several denominations, confirmed in the Episcopal faith, and did not see the value in yet another baptism in the LDS Church.  However, the LDS belief that they are the 'true' and 'restored' church and that whatever holy spirit, holy ghost, connection to Jesus and God I had before exposure to the LDS Church was not in it's own right good enough, strong enough or however it was stated to me, although intended to be lovingly stated, underscored the arrogance I came to see as part of the narrative of the LDS membership that this is the only true church.

I did gain a testimony, still have a testimony, only it is of Joseph Smith and far from the traditional narrative that he was a prophet, establishing the restored church, therefore the true church, the authority of the priesthood and that only by the keys of this priesthood could one walk their journey of progression.  However, this is my logical and intellectual pursuits, it is not my emotional response to the church membership.  It is exactly that emotional reaction and response that is triggered for me in appreciating that the good the LDS Church has to offer is comparable to other denominations, however, I do believe the LDS Church has a corner on building community and fellowship that other denominations might well envy.  And I say that with a smile and love in my heart.

Two of the young missionaries called on us recently while we were attending to the grandchildren.  We invited them in, and I asked them to give a lesson to the grandchildren.  Gotta love those young missionaries who in all earnestness, with sincerity of heart and the brightness that young people have, gave my grandchildren a heartfelt lesson based on their beliefs in the narrative of the LDS Church.   The children were attentive and fascinated.    We are known to our new Ward and it is my wish to pay a visit to our newest Ward, experience once again an urban setting with young, growing families, a Ward abuzz with energy, prosperity and see what kind of fit it has for us.   We reference it to the grandchildren as the 3 hour church to differentiate it from the 1 hour Episcopal church.  It's not easy to get that title, Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints or LDS or Mormon explained easily to the grandchildren, without a bit more exposure to the teachings.  Maybe, the Lord willing, and with God's help, we will find a home in our new Ward that can be an extension of our home in the Episcopal Cathedral.  

At the bible studies at the Cathedral, we are able to share some of the beliefs of the LDS church in a productive manner that meets with respect among the people at the study.  One of the men there told a story of two young missionary women who came to his home and asked what they might do to be of service to him, how they might help him, what he might need help with, could they perhaps clean the area alongside his driveway for him.  He agreed, they worked and worked hard, he brought them some gloves to soften the potential of callouses on their hands.  He was impressed with the young women and their devotion.  He did not know they were Mormon, he didn't have preconceived ideas about what that might mean, he shared with the class his appreciation for what those young women did in sharing service with him.   We affirmed his story in the approach the LDS Church is taking in encouraging the young missionaries to offer services, less proselytizing at initial contact and demonstrating what service can mean.  I am pleased and impressed with his story, we are pleased to be able to share our own experiences of the LDS Church.

Somehow though, I rather don't think that if I were to share the experiences of the Episcopal Church in an LDS meeting that it would meet with as much receptiveness as was met in the sharing of our LDS experience at our Episcopal bible study in the Cathedral.  It's a wait and see experience.  Having already attempted many times to share the broader Christian experiences I've had when I was in the LDS meetings at my former Ward, it was met with awkward, uncomfortable silence, and a quick reaction by someone or several to correct and adjust my perspectives to alignment with the LDS narrative.  I would expect something similar were I to share such again at this new Ward, however, I am content to wait and see, and within the LDS language, respectfully share what have been my other experiences that also equate to the Christian message.  

I miss the community and fellowship, and while we have placed ourselves in a self-appointed exile from the Church, it has not been the position of the Church or the membership to exile us from fellowship as members of the community.  That is an emotional experience that does not have as much to do with exchanges about theology, beliefs, doctrine, dogma, as much as it has to do with genuine human connection, and via human companionship, connection, a connection to our Lord, to Heavenly Father and part of the human community of being Children of God.

I'm Still Percolating

Still percolating. Updates though, while percolating.

 Baptism for the dead. I am coming to appreciate that this is indeed one of the rituals that LDS members do hold sacred, for reasons having to do with ensuring all have opportunity, living and dead. Also their belief that it among the commandments to make upon earth conditions as described in the scriptures. Although I'm not yet inclined to embrace all the scriptures they are using, preferring still bible as scriptural basis by which to begin to build foundations, and baptisms for the dead is but one verse in the New Testament referencing a practice done at that time in history, I am inclined to think about adopting the ritual in support of the fact that it is considered a sacred rite to LDS membership. Having now learned that the performance characteristics of this ritual are safe and do not include touching of the body beyond a laying on of hands on the head, that element is out of the way. Still a barrier and in the way - the issue of tithing equates to whether one can or cannot enter temple. Right now it is my thought that this church is putting up barriers that will impede my progression, something the leadership and membership desire for me, yet it seems I will need to pay my way to that progression.

 ....................... Sidebar, and in observing one bit of information, leads me to relating more of my (our) faith journey. Skip this part if you aren't interested in reading through 4-5 paragraphs, and I may well have related some part of our journey in previous blog postings.

 Interestingly, side note, there is an Occupy London (OWS) gathering at the St Paul Cathedral in London, Anglican (Episcopal) Church of England, which has been sourced as reason for two high ranking clergy stepping down from their positions in support of not banning the Occupiers from camping out at St Pauls. What has this to do with my blog subject? Just my observant following of the Occupy movement and my affiliation with the Episcopal church. I'm a bit of a dual citizenship Christian in that regard, actually more than dual citizenship but for now I'll reference just the two faith citizenships, Episcopal and LDS.

 I was baptized in Methodist church when I was a baby. In my young teen years I attended a neighborhood church when we lived in the South - probably a Baptist church and the minister called people to come down, and in the feeling of the moment, I went down which led the minister to herd me immediately into baptism - something I wasn't fully ready for, more was in touch with the feeling than knowledgeable about the practices or beliefs. Once again, as a young adult, via home lessons from the Jehovah's Witnesses, I began attending that church, was once again herded into baptism. By then I had our firstborn child and was looking for a spiritual home in which to raise her. That lasted two years, and I credit myself for a bit of perseverance in wanting good for my child, yet finding something not quite in line with what I was looking for, I left that church within two years. late into our adult years, after my divorce and marriage to my current husband, we were confirmed in the Episcopal church (church of my mother's formative years) where we found a church home where we felt welcome, wanted and needed. In time we came to see that the members were older and looking for younger energy to continue the offices of the church, which put us in the path of studies towards being licensed lay preachers, and further down the road unpaid Priests.

 The invasion into Iraq put us on a different footing, with a stronger discernment of ministry in activism to end the Iraq war, a call to Peace. With a military background and both of us having experienced some aspect of the earlier Vietnam war, we spoke as a military family and veteran calling for the troops to be brought home, the Iraq war brought to a close. This necessitated conflicting schedules with our functions at the church on Sundays and our public activism engagements. We advised the membership, spent years between 2004 and 2008 in intense activism efforts. Returning to our home church no longer quite felt like home to us. Years had passed with our country in turmoil, and we found it difficult to settle back into a quiet Sunday worship service routine as the expression of our spirituality, beliefs and recent activism energies.

 We had opportunity to visit a Lutheran worship service, as the Episcopals and Lutherans are in communion. It was not a lot different than Episcopal service and I loved the church building, a quaint building of Norwegian styled architecture. Lutherans have a quite extensive and somewhat impressive social services outreach. Thought it might be a bit too much though, husband still doing social work in his profession, and adding more social work outreach in his leisure hours after the years of intense activism might be a bit of overload. I chose instead to spend some time on the Boards of local non-profits, one that was being smeared badly and unfortunately given their history of good work in the community, and the other a church start-up food bank for local town. As it turns out on the Board of the food bank start up was the same individual who participated in badly smearing the other organization. I remained on both Boards until the inevitable demise of one organization had reached completion, in the hopes I might bring something to the table that would aid in turning it around. Not to be. In the diminished need of the existence of one board, I no longer felt comfortable being on the other board, taking my leave and still wanting for their endeavor to be a successful one.

 A few more years passed, we visited a church in our immediate community, good people, and perhaps a bit of the Evangelical coloring making it somewhat uncomfortable for us. By the time of the year 2010, we felt calmed enough to visit other of the local churches, still seeking a church home for our later years. We agreed we would visit the local denomination churches one by one, and some of the further distance churches based on what was attractive to us in their belief sets and practices, ie Quakers, Unity Church which we had enjoyed in our visit to congregation in Vancouver, WA. We started with a visit to my husband's church, local Mormon church in the area. I was impressed enough with the talks to believe I could make my personal spirituality work within context of this church, his church and I yearned for him to find some place of inner peace with his cultural heritage and identity vs the doctrines the church impressed upon him. I rather knew giving a thumbs up and announcing desire to proceed to baptism would generate the baptism preparedness activity which I by then knew every church denomination seems intent on insisting, thinking we could get it done and out of the way rather than the cat and mouse dance of being convinced to agree to baptism. I had years of life with my husband, exposure to his perception of Mormon beliefs and practices, and felt ready to make this dive for where it might take us. end sidebar............................

  Sunday talks at Sacrament Meeting. Conversion or Convert as a process and not an event. Speaker, a long time member of the church, and also holding an academic and skilled profession as an administrator of school system, spoke of being converted in some areas while still waiting for conversion in other areas. A relief to me to hear. The 'process' of conversion as a process as in over years, maybe decades, maybe a lifetime. Shares the out take from the parable of the wage earners with the late arrivals being paid the same amount as the all day workers. He used just a few sentences, it was a part of his talk, not the subject of his talk. Loved how he gave the parable a green light and ended that part of his talk as the end of his talk with those familiar phrase to 'get over it'. Gives me another sense of relief, that I have a place at this table even if I have arrived late to the party. Bishop talk, and he wrapped his talk up with the phrase to 'suck it up'. Another familiar phrase to me.

  Sunday School - Gospel Doctrine I just can't get into the teacher's teaching style. Asks the open ended questions and seems to me with an expectation of 'correct' responses, not shared thoughts of many. It feels to me like he is wanting people to read his mind as to what the correct response is, or at least based on my feeling/reaction when I do share a response which it feels like he pretty much writes off. I was resolved to provide no response at all, not to let my spontaneity overcome my resolve. I was successful. Bishop fulfilled his promise to sit with me, and again encourages me to share and respond. I'm thinking about this often. Knowing I bring different perspective since I've been exposed to different disciplines, I am coming to understand though, this is not about discussion, dialogue or sharing. It's pretty much rote, routine responses, even if the teacher has worked hard in preparing the lesson. Maybe it's his personal perspective that he brings to the lesson and since he and I would likely not see eye to eye on many of the New Testament readings, because he is in the role of 'teacher' it changes the dynamic as perhaps would not be in a private conversational exchange. Leaving this one as perplexing to me for now, likely will return to it from time to time in this blog. I am not doing well with the Sunday School class, nor the teachers called to teach it. Or at least that is my feeling about it, although I have not had any members call me out on it.

  Joint Priesthood and Relief Society Meeting (men and women meeting together) Four Talks - every one of them about Tithing (capital T intentional). Lay it off to it's that time of year, with tithing settlements sessions with Bishop coming up or can't help but feel like because I did bring the issue up with the Bishop in Bishop interview last week, it brings the topic back to the forefront. One of our newest members (moved here from another Ward) pointed out the distinction of 10% of income or 10% of increase and don't other contributions as strength, time, talents, gifts count as increase. That was not dismissed as not having merit, but given that all the other talks were firm on the 10% of income, I didn't get the impression that the point of increase was considered to be the correct application. Discussions with husband and he assures me that talk is not aimed at me (us) specifically and there are others in the Ward membership who are not paying tithing regularly or fully or at all.

  Community of Christ church meeting We had bumped into website for Community of Christ Church earlier in the week, and read through the website for several hours. It appears that while they are the product of Joseph Smith teachings that did not make the trek to Utah under Brigham Young leadership, remaining instead in East Coast states, the formation of the religions have quite different beliefs. Listening to Mormon Stories podcast; John Hamer, The LDS Succession Crisis of 1844 and the Beginning of RLDS (Community of Christ) we got a feel for the formation and beliefs of the Community of Christ church. Interestingly, when we lived on Samish Island in Skagit County, there was one road in and an RLDS sign was posted showing direction to what we presume was an RLDS campsite. As it turns out, that is correct, it is one of the Community of Christ campsites. I recall at the time, not knowing the difference between Fundamentalist LDS with polygamy, I had mistakenly thought RLDS to be that, and was always put off by seeing that sign, thinking it pointed direction to a polygamous compound. I was wrong about my perceptions, confused about the acronymns. RLDS means Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, a name they changed to Community of Christ in 2001 more in keeping with original name of the Joseph Smith church - Church of Christ. Community of Christ church follows the Revised Common Lectionary with the liturgical years A,B, C. Familiar theme via our confirmation and activity with the Episcopal Church. Core message of the Community of Christ church is Peace. From the website, it certainly appeared that the hybrid blend of Mormon/Protestant beliefs might be a better fit for us, we contacted a congregation closest to us and were invited to come.

 We drove the hour drive and met with the people of that particular congregation, very small, newly forming and sharing church building with Methodist church in that particular neighborhood, diaconal Minister (meaning unpaid minister). The people were pleasant, warm, welcoming and inviting enough, sharing their meal with us, followed by their service. We tried to bring to the sharing some of our positive LDS experiences, yet I didn't get the sense there was familiarity to them of LDS community. It was, not as I might have thought, LDS Light, but seemed more of a start up congregation of what could easily have been any Protestant faith, or for that matter, a community non-profit reach out group. Were this what we were looking for, we can find it much closer to home, and we have found it in many of our church and community affiliations. Since they are a quite small group, their focus is on their immediate community needs, ie, holiday baskets, adopt a family, clothing and food drives, helping with holiday community dinner. Bless them and wishing them well in their endeavors, it is not quite what we were thinking it would be and if anything rather validated that I am more pleased than I realize with the LDS church and Ward we attend.

Baptisms for the dead - an early Christian practice?

It remains on my mind that the Bishop said to me with a degree of emphasis on it being in the bible (he knows I have a strong leaning towards biblical text which I consider to be the gospel, having not yet fully embraced the BoM, D & C, PoGP as 'gospel') so much so, that I wanted to do my own follow up and see what I think the bible verse, chapter and context is trying to say.  Verse; 1 Corinthians 15:29  ²⁹Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead? 


Given that I am not taken to use of one verse as a methodology to create an entire concept or doctrine based on that verse, I was curious about the entire chapter and what was being said, to whom, by whom, along with some sense of the era or period of time in which it was being said as well as some of the customs/practices of that time.  It is a given that I cannot possible know what were customs/practices of an era of antiquity and must rely on scholarly studies, which of themselves are seldom in agreement.  More sorting, more puzzle pieces and I've long since abandoned an idea that with enough puzzle pieces I would be able to piece together an entire picture, rather a composite of fragments of customs/cultures and belief sets that have been shared, borrowed, confiscated, supplanting and/or augmenting the existing cultural belief sets.

It is my belief that it is impossible to gather enough information or ideas or concepts to glue together an overarching belief set thus having at last driven down to the 'truth' as a singular foundational underlaying of the many years of layers upon layers.  I think my mental approach wants to be a bit like an archaeological dig, getting down beneath the surface to find out what was buried over the eons.  And even then knowing whatever is found will still be subject to interpretation based on the finder's perspectives given his/her period in history. 


excerpt at ORB    (more closely matches my understanding of the Christian narrative, and I appreciated  as well as recommend reading the entire article)

Early Christian doctrines developed and were shaped over time; they were neither fixed nor stable. Once a doctrine was established it often necessitated a subsequent doctrine to define more precisely what was meant and to clarify the subtle nuances. Lived experience and understanding was the basis for the emergence of forming and re-forming doctrine. In other words, the need to develop doctrine about Jesus Christ emerged from the need to sort out what was truly Christian experience and life. In the words of the early church historian, Joseph Kelly:

The story of the Church begins at Pentecost with a frightened group of disciples wondering what will happen to them; it progresses through an almost frenetic attempt to win over the outside world before the Second Coming; it focuses on an epic struggle with the most powerful empire of the ancient world; it reaches its high point with the conversion of that empire to the new faith; it closes with the gradual decline of a great civilization and the emergence of a new world. It has a large canvas and broad brush strokes. While we must pay meticulous attention to the particulars, we must never forget the generalŠ(Kelly, "Why Study Early Church History?" 5)

I read the entire chapter of Corinthians for context, and continued to be nagged by the sense that this one particular verse pointed to something I had not yet explored for myself.  Further that it is not of substantive value to be mentioned in the Protestant narratives to which I had been exposed, nor the Episcopal narrative, meaning to me that it has been discounted as not relevant to the Protestant or Episcopal narratives.  If I bypass Protestant and Episcopal narratives, what do the religious studies have to say about this verse, being that it does point to some kind of custom being practiced in that time.  What practice, why, and from where does that practice stem? 

Chasing it down, I gain some knowledge of what is believed among some scholars to be the custom pointed to in the verse (along with a lot of sifting through the usual and typical finger pointing to the Mormon belief as heretical, false, misguided, etc.).  That is not what I'm after, I'm after some concrete sense of what custom, what practice, for what reason, why is Paul pointing it out at all unless it was being practiced and he knew of it.  And if so, is he finding a commonality he can point to in preaching the Christ resurrection or is he admonishing against something suggesting a replacement of belief sets, what he is preaching instead of the practice of what they are doing?   

It would be presumptuous for me to write that I found answers to what I was looking for as if that is the explanation.  Rather I would state that I did find thoughts about what I was looking for that cause me to pause a bit and let that information percolate a while.  Nonetheless, it becomes evident to me that somewhere in the Mormon history, the meanings attached to this verse, whether from Gnostic or otherwise belief sets, this verse brought the Mormon practice of baptisms for the dead alive as a ritual practice imbued with sacred meanings for those who teach it as well as those who believe it as well as those who practice it.  Iconography has sprung up with it to further imbue sacred meaning to the practice.  It is therefore real enough as it is practiced in the LDS church among the membership.

 I'm not having a problem with approaching it from that perspective.  I'm still stuck though on the a,b,c  element that ties tithing to temple, therefore ties tithing to the Mormon sacred ritual practice of performing baptisms for the dead, as it is performed only in the temple, not in the chapels and access to the temple requires a temple recommend which requires approval from a bishop which means responding with an honest degree of integrity to the questions posited by the bishop in which the question of 'do you pay a full tithing' requires an answer of yes or no.  The matter of defining what is a full tithing, as in one tenth of your personal increase has considerable wiggle room, and were we agreeable to paying some part of a tithing, could easily respond to the question with a yes with a personal degree of honest integrity.  The church has not been unclear in restating repetitiously it's requirements of members to pay tithing at a rate of ten percent or 1/10th of their income/increase.

It seems that I do not yet have a testimony of tithing, which is in fact prohibiting and impeding gaining a testimony of the temple, a testimony of baptism for the dead, a testimony of sealing, and as yet unknown to me other testimonies that involve temple, ie, personal endowments, ordinances and in truth because it is absent in my experience, I really don't yet know what else will be kept from me for the lack of temple experience.

It's an odd thing, because I have a belief in sharing, compassion, generosity of spirit, empathy for humankind, community, communion, and belonging.  While I recognize there is usually some sort of price to be paid for admittance to the tribe, be it initiation rituals, practices, customs as shared among the tribe, I have not yet encountered a must pay cash contribution situation.  Appreciating that it does take funding for most organizations, religious or otherwise, to function well, I'm not opposed to contributing for the sake of well being of the organizations ability to function.  I am not sold on a specific contribution amount being set as the price of admittance though - that concept troubles me.  

Creedal Christians - all ?

Creedal Christians which oft recite the Nicene Creed in their worship services and Mormon Christians while having their own perspective do seem, imo, to share many similarities in what they believe to be inviolate truths.  For myself, while I'm not a believer in inviolate truth, rather that we (humans) have fragmented fragments of history on which we build tenets of faith, sacredness, worship, it seems more logical to look at some of the similarities even as we clearly see the differences.  Often times I experience a communion with my husband, believing we are talking of the same things and seeing them in the same light only to discover at a later time that the very words we have shared have different defining concepts for each of us.  Yes, we shared words in common, and sometimes we were sharing thoughts in common, and other times we realized we were looking at some of the same image concepts yet taking away different meanings.  I believe this to be the condition we find amongst the wide variants found in Christianity.

As he and I once enjoyed the Eucharist  worship service and the taking of the Communion in the Episcopal church, we both found we had objections to some of the elements in the Nicene Creed we cited, just as we find we have objections to some of the elements taught in the LDS church.

From the Book of Common Prayer we recited in Episcopal worship services - Nicene Creed.  (note this is also in the Lutheran Book of Worship

  

We believe in one God, the Father, the Almighty, maker of heaven and earth, of all that is, seen and unseen. We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ, the only Son of God, eternally begotten of the Father, God from God, Light from Light, true God from true God, begotten, not made, of one Being with the Father. Through him all things were made. For us and for our salvation he came down from heaven: by the power of the Holy Spirit he became incarnate from the Virgin Mary, and was made man. 
For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate; he suffered death and was buried. On the third day he rose again in accordance with the Scriptures; he ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father. He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead, and his kingdom will have no end. 
We believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life, who proceeds from the Father and the Son. With the Father and the Son he is worshiped and glorified. He has spoken through the Prophets. We believe in one holy catholic and apostolic Church. We acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins. We look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come. Amen. 

Read talk given by Elder Jeffrey R. Holland,  in 2007 at General Conference, Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, Jeffrey R. Holland, (of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles )who stated:

Now, to anyone within the sound of my voice who has wondered regarding our Christianity, I bear this witness. I testify that Jesus Christ is the literal, living Son of our literal, living God. This Jesus is our Savior and Redeemer who, under the guidance of the Father, was the Creator of heaven and earth and all things that in them are. I bear witness that He was born of a virgin mother, that in His lifetime He performed mighty miracles observed by legions of His disciples and by His enemies as well. I testify that He had power over death because He was divine but that He willingly subjected Himself to death for our sake because for a period of time He was also mortal. I declare that in His willing submission to death He took upon Himself the sins of the world, paying an infinite price for every sorrow and sickness, every heartache and unhappiness from Adam to the end of the world. In doing so He conquered both the grave physically and hell spiritually and set the human family free. I bear witness that He was literally resurrected from the tomb and, after ascending to His Father to complete the process of that Resurrection, He appeared, repeatedly, to hundreds of disciples in the Old World and in the New. I know He is the Holy One of Israel, the Messiah who will one day come again in final glory, to reign on earth as Lord of lords and King of kings. I know that there is no other name given under heaven whereby a man can be saved and that only by relying wholly upon His merits, mercy, and everlasting grace can we gain eternal life.

Anglican Church of State, Baptists Persecutions

Excerpt from Chapter 3 of The Sword of the Lord. Baptists were an oppressed and disreputable religious community in American before the Revolution. They were attacked, beaten, jailed, and ostracized for the offense of creating their own churches outside the established Church of England. Baptists therefore, led the drive to enshrine the separation of church and state in the new United States Constitution. The principle Baptists defended was intended to prevent the state from privileging one religious institution or one set of religious beliefs and practices over another, though not to prevent individuals from bringing their private religion and principles into the public sphere. ( read more at Beating Up Baptists | Andrew Himes )

I've been following Andrew Himes blog as he promotes his recently released book. Andrew, Seattle based, is known to me from my earlier period of activism as a military family speaking out on Iraq War. Andrew did far more good than I could ever have done in introducing non-threatening educational curriculum in Seattle region schools permitting dialogue amongst students on the war issue; his work in creating forum for artistic expression by soldiers, veterans, and their families towards the healing work that will be an ongoing consequence of this and previous wars. I have lost touch with Andrew in recent years, and it is encouraging to learn he has gone on to work on publishing his book to once again find healing ground in which to deal with controversial issue in non-confrontational manner.

Of interest to me in this particular post are several factors. In my studies of the culture and religion of Mormonism, I encountered in another forum blog the use of the word Restoration in connection with Baptists. I followed the linkage which took me to Restoration based religions at the time of the Second Great Awakening formation religions of the 19th century. Which led me to the Campbellites (Alexander and Thomas Campbell) which led me to the Disciples of Christ, which led me to Sidney Rigdon and Parley P. Pratt, adherants of the Campbellite Church of Christ movement, who led a percentage of the congregants to the newly forming Mormon religion of Joseph Smith. 

 With both my husband and myself more recently coming from being confirmed in the Episcopal (Anglican) Church which was closest thing I have to a familiar church of my childhood (my mother's church affiliation) to his returning to his root church (Mormon, officially LDS) and my joining the church of his faith, the mention of the Anglican Church as being the Church of State was of interest to me. I had heard this same mention recently for the first time when we watched the PBS documentary, God in America, that aired October 2010. That the Baptists were persecuted in acts of violence is not something I knew. Incorrectly or otherwise, I could posit the evolution of Anglican to the Great Awakening (first and second) religion formations, to include Baptists, Methodists, Calvinists, Presbyterians, revivalists movements to offshoots from these religious belief sets to include Campellites to Mormonism as perhaps distant or close cousins one to another.